Use this post to comment on Chapters 6 - 9 in Kowit's In the Palm of Your Hand. Some questions to potentially answer:
What good advice did you find?
What advice didn't make sense?
What devices in Chapter 7 are particularly useful to you?
What did you make of the discussion of figurative language in Chapter 8?
What did you take from the example poems Kowit gives in the chapters?
What could be the benefit of using a controlled metaphor in a poem, per Chapter 9?
You should pay particularly close attention to Chapter 8. Kowit's discussion of ambiguity ties into our previous discussion regarding implication. When you leave a level of ambiguity in your poems, the reader can work to fill in the blanks. It makes for a much more satisfying read. You know that a poem generally has multiple meanings (the surface-level walk in Frost's poem versus the deeper spiritual isolation we discussed, for example), and your sentence-to-sentence word choice can also function on multiple levels.
Also, the discussion on pgs 68 - 74 regarding word choice in simile/metaphor is very well-put. You should look at comparing things in a new way for your reader, as much as possible. You should also look to compare things in a way in which the language you use supports the tone of the poem. Think of the choir in the poem we discussed supporting the religious overtones of the poem as a whole.
I had a few thoughts on the Kowit reading. First, I really liked how he walked the reader through how to rewrite poems in chapter 6. It would probably be useful for any striving poet. However, the rest of the chapters got annoying. Chapter 7 talked about how poetry has a sort of musical aspect. However, the examples for how poets accomplish making the poem musical, especially the part about consonance, really didn't help me hear the music. In fact, I found the poems to become even more annoying. Speaking of the actual poems, I found that a lot of them were about something small that the poet made overly-dramatic. I feel like the poet just needs something to cry about, so they would write whatever they can think of, add in some nonsense that sounds deep to them, and boom! A poem is made! This is especially apparent in the opening poem of chapter 8. And speaking of chapter 8, the one thing about ambiguity that could either make it work or not is if the reader understands the double-meaning. It's not like someone is always going to be their to explain it, and that just makes the ambiguity fall flat. Overall, I really didn't like what I read. -Nikhil
ReplyDeleteIt was a lot to digest, but all valuable perspectives to consider in order to strengthen poetic skills. The truths I found most helpful are that 1) there is no right or wrong way to write poetry, and 2)to truly create a great poem involves many aspects (some conscious, and some not); and more importantly takes numerous approaches to finish. This poses the question: Is a poem or any other piece of art ever truly finished? All ideas can be re-evaluated over time and expanded on. As far as chapter 7 goes, it reminded me how much work actually goes in to making a piece flow. For some writing to sound good, it must meet certain characteristics. The one that was most reinforced to me while reading was consonance. It seems when previously attempting to right poetry when specific lines seemed awkward, a little consonance would have helped the words roll off the tongue better. On the subject of ambiguity, I was attracted to the concept of taking a dull experience and chocking it full with a powerful meaning such as a life lesson or pivotal experience. It seems that to write good poetry one must walk along a fine line, so as to not do too much, making the work inauthentic, while simultaneously giving life to diction. I am looking forward to implementing some of these tools that I have either put to the side long ago and since forgotten, or have simply been presented to me in a new way. --Kevin Clark
ReplyDeleteI thought the chapters were a little dragged out. They were definitely topics in poetry that needed to be discussed, but I felt as though there was a lot of rambling and repetition. Chapter 6 was the chapter I found to be most helpful. I used it as inspiration to rewrite the poem that I will be emailing out next week for class and I like the poem better than before. I think Kevin brings up an interesting point. Is poetry or art ever actually finished? It can always be revised and rewritten, but the decision on whether or not the work is truly finished is up to the artist themselves. If they're perfectly happy with the work, then to them it's truly finished. I liked the point that Kowit brought forward in Chapter 7 about poetry and music as well. Chapter 8 seemed a little redundant since we've been learning about similes and metaphors since 3rd grade. I really enjoyed chapter 9 though because it shows how powerful metaphors can be when used correctly. As for ambiguity, I agree that there should be some level of it included in poetry. It opens up the poem to the reader and lets the readers mind kind of wander into the multiple interpretations that are implied.
ReplyDeleteMeghan Archer
I liked how he said things one more time to remind how important it was, I also like how people are saying poetry is never finished. Kowit talks about music and poetry in Chapter 7, I think it was somewhat cliche, because everyone talks about how poetry is like music. I mean no disrespect, his advice for the flow of poetry is helpful. About ambiguity, I think that ambiguity is what makes poetry a poetry. I think without assumptions and interpretations, poetry would be boring.(Although some people think it's boring as it is right now, haha) I liked chapter 8 because it reminded me that the basic is important and new word choice can determine the reader's judgement to read on. I think I am going to use alot of his tips and advices for my writing. Only question I have is that, "do we have to cite his tips and advices in writing???"
ReplyDeleteI wasn't totally impressed with the chapter on revision (Chapter 6). He seemed to place a lot of importance on revision, but left a lot of questions unanswered. I have to agree with Kevin... is anything every truly finished? At some point you have to accept what you've written as "finished" because otherwise you could revise forever. I also think revision is an important step to take after talking to other people who have read your writing... they can offer a completely unbiased opinion and often open your eyes to things you can't see.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Young said about ambiguity. If a poet (or novelist) details everything for the reader, there's no room for interpretation. If a reader can connect with what they're reading in even a small way, it makes it more interesting for them (or at least for me, whenever I read).
Kowit's advice is interesting, but I feel like everyone sits down to write in different ways and it's hard to find a uniform piece of advice that works for everyone. I've never sat down and formed lists about what I want to write, and the poems I constructed from the lists felt forced, so I'm not sure I"ll resort to that in the future.
Stephanie B.
Like the previous Kowit reading, I enjoyed this one a lot. The poems he uses, for the most part, are interesting and fun to read. I especially enjoyed the man eater poem. The best advise I got from the reading was revise, revise, revise. I've heard many writers say this about writing. There's a quote I heard someone say (but I forget who said is and can't find the source online) that writing is rewriting. I liked how Kowit took a so-so poem and then improved it with minor tips. He cleared up the clumsy and unclear word choices and other aspects of the poem.
ReplyDeleteThe device I liked the most was repetition or Anaphora because I liked reading the poems that had this in it. In one of the earlier chapters the poem How I Knew Harold was one of my favorites. I feel that when used properly repletion can be extremely powerful.
On the subject of ambiguity I feel that this is where most people start to hate poetry. It's when the author leaves too much ambiguity that a reader starts to get frustrated with a poem because the message it's trying to deliver is too subtle. But when done just right it can leave the reader to get a few different messages that are as valuable as the last.
- Alejandro
Kowit gives a great layout for people new to poetry like myself. Some advice given are both useful and somewhat contradictory. Kowit says don't be emotionally attached to your work, so you can objectively revise your work. This make sense because not every poem you turn out will be great, so you should not let your ego cloud the work. However I also agree with my peers whom notes that "is anything ever truly finished?", so you cannot just keep revising a poem. I feel like a poem should just capture a strong emotion one feels at a certain moment, so I would not be too big on constant revision. Chapter 7 gave me a lot of insight on the flow poetry. I did not know how complex some seemingly ordinary poems are in their "flow". Integrating literary techniques such as assonance really does help make the poem sound better. I like kowit's remake of the poem without literary techniques,it gives me a chance to fully appreciate the original poems. Figurative language and image also gives a more complex meaning to simple poems. As for ambiguity, it makes the reader think and visualize. Giving the reader a sense of suspense and makes the poem come to life. Some of the metaphors I got right away, others left me with a wtf are they trying to convey. This is because some of the poems are inside meaning that is obvious to the poet or pertain to a certain time era that I did not experienced. Also my interpretation of a poem might not be the same as someone else's interpretation. So how do I know what the author is really trying to say? I believe this discussion was the hardest to comprehend. Overall I thought the book was insightful, I will try to follow Kowit's advices, but will take it with a grain of salt and try to develop my own feel for poetry. -Khang L.
ReplyDeleteChapter 6 comes off as a heavy-handed and condescending. I concede that the point he's trying to make is a good one; we must be careful to critically examine our work and revise, revise, revise. The problem is that he repeatedly makes use of such phrases as "An inexperienced poet x. A good poet y." as well as saying, for example, that polishing comes after many stages of revision, without defining polishing even informally, giving the impression that maybe one day when you are no longer an inexperienced poet you may have revised a single poem often enough to begin polishing it. I can not understand the frame of reference from which an author can decide to write a poetry guide that insults its audience while jeering that they might be worth something someday.
ReplyDeleteChapter 7 was confusing, or perhaps I just read it too quickly. It seems to me that the sound of a poem has a subtle effect compared to those aspects that more directly convey meaning, so it is difficult for me to, as it were, drown out the meaning of the words to focus on the sounds they really make. Reading aloud doesn't seem to help.
Chapters 8 and 9 felt like a brisk review of junior high english class; this is synecdoche, do your best not to abuse it. The examples are very well chosen, though, so at least it wasn't too bland. It was a bit like reading Orwell's essay on what's wrong with the evolution of language in that it warns of stale and improper phrasing much more than it suggests means of inventing new comparisons. But I suppose it isn't really possible to tell people how to invent anything.
Throughout the discussion I felt I was missing at least one allusion per poem on average. There is nothing like reading poetry to absolve one of feelings of worldliness.
-Mark Henrickson-Mattson
I’m not a writer, usually when I write a paper I just want to finish and forget about the paper. I do revise my papers but not in a great detail. I think writing poetry will be different because you want to capture your reader into your poem. Kowit tells you in a way what you need in your poems to capture the readers in the first chapters and continues through the book. In chapters 6 to 9 Kowit emphases how poets do it, they revise poems many times because like it says in chapter 6 you never know when your finish until you think is good. In chapter 7 we start paying attention how a poem sounds as we read, rhyming and alliterations. For me trying my poem to rhyme and use alliterations might take a while because I find this not easy. Figurative language can help you write your poem but if you over use it might ruin your poem. That then lets to chapter 9 where metaphor can be great to make your poem visual to reader. I just think figurative language is fun and can make it easy to write a poem. I enjoy reading Kowit because his tips and exercise poems are good.
ReplyDeleteFaviola Bonilla
Although I wasn't a huge fan of the end result in chapter 6 (it was certainly, at least, far improved from the original) I had no qualms or particular revelations from the chapter. Revision is important to any form of writing, and it was an interesting read, but nothing that really jumped out at me.
ReplyDeleteChapter 7 I was less tolerant of. It wasn't that there was particularly anything wrong with the chapter or with Kowit's discussion of the various rhyme schemes and sound effects. I've always had a problem following rhymes that are inside of words. I understand that they can add a lot, but for me, it's like grammer: when I speak correctly, I do it without thinking, because I have been trained to. When I write poems that have attributes such as assonance, it's because the words sounded right in my head, not because I searched for something that matched. I can understand the value of writing as Kowit asks readers to, but it isn't something that works well for me.
I enjoyed chapter 8, particularly the opening poem. I thought that Kowit's reminder at the end not to put metaphors simply for the sake of metaphors was a good touch. I absolutely loved the poem "Very Like a Whale." I'm actually a fan of Byron's "Destruction of Sennacherib" but was laughing while reading nonetheless.
I don't have much to say about chapter 9. I had fun reading it and hopefully it will stick with me. I can't think of much bad to say about it. My main 'commentary' on chapter 9 applies to the rest of the chapters so far just as well:
I tend to learn best through example, and while I am interested in what Kowit has to say and have probably learned a lot already, my main 'teacher' in this book is simply through the poems he has picked, and these are fabulous. Of course, there are some that I like far less than others or even not at all, but most of them speak to me. He had enough variety to keep the book interesting but the majority of the poems are still 'current' and accessible and relevant to how I want to be able to write.
The chapter on revision was not particularly interesting to me, surprisingly. After having other professors beat it into my head, I understand the revision is one of the most important, if not the most important, parts of the writing process. The question of ever being finished with a piece, as brought up by many others, almost makes me dread the revision process. However, I have been told it is a matter of being content with the work and not “complete”. Since this is poetry it seems a lot different than other prose writing. It is hard to tell how something is wrong or could be expressed better when writing poetry. What if it could be expressed in a “better” way, but I want to specifically and deliberately put it the way I have it? Especially since last week we spoke on how even the few rules in writing poetry get broken all of the time. But perhaps the key is as Kowit says, being able to objectively step outside of the work and look at it without emotion. Just look at the structure and flow of the poem. This is the best advice I took from that chapter.
ReplyDeleteChapter 7 had a lot of devices that I have commonly seen in poetry and even a few that I have given a shot at trying. One in particular, anaphora, I have never heard of before. I will probably give that a try in later poems to see how it works for me. In poems written before, I extensively used repetition and alliteration because I like the emphasis on repeated words and lines and the strength of repeated consonant sounds.
I find myself agreeing with the others who mentioned how chapters 8 and 9 felt like a review of high school on metaphor. However, Kowit does a good job of stressing the importance of metaphors and ambiguity. I know that all poems I wrote in the past could benefit revising and using ambiguous language or more metaphors to get certain emotions across. The ambiguity seems to give a little something more for the reader. Often times writers write for themselves, especially with poetry. But when the writer asks for an audience outside of himself there needs to be something for the reader to get out of it. I agree on the importance of ambiguity in this case.
--Raygene Miller
Reading chapter six was a great re-address of concepts discussed in our first class room meeting. The concept of revision can be a difficult one as a poet is constantly seeking to mold a poem with precision and the most specific images. A writer most distinguish where simplicity is virtuous and complexity adds depth and value rather than confusion and unnecessary baggage. Kowit's explanation of forced poetry is astute. There are pieces of poetry that seem so forced into a 'poetical nature' that they are awkward and the word choice provides little impact and meaning to a story flow. Simply using a word to rhyme with a prior word, but not exploring that word as an actual addition to the poem's surface and alterior meanings is a mistake.
ReplyDeleteI loved chapter seven's explanation of the music of poetry. I feel that many poems seek to inspire in a music-like fashion and Kowit explains that this is due to the poem's sense of internal rhyme. This leads me to believe that by approaching poetry as music, I can derive a completely different feel and meaning from words. This creates a new dynamic and approach to new poetry and old favorites. Words as music, not simply words as meaning. The power of music on the emotional mood of a person is undeniable. Even the most unapproachable critic might be lured into a love of certain poetry by the allusion of high notes, low notes, guitar strings or classical piano...certainly another element of the poet and poem's mood is illuminated. The devices Kowit uses to show the presence of music in poetry are those of musical lyrics as well: repitition, alliteration, etc. We often wonder why a certain song gets 'stuck in our heads.' Perhaps we should explore the impression of those catchy, repeated chorus lines?
Kowit's chapters eight and nine, explore devices that are commonly discussed in all facets of the literary world. Figurative language, while playing a central role in the life of a poem, also is lucrative to the success of a short story or novel (as is also the case with the use of metaphors). I find that sometimes an overuse of figurative language and metaphor can weigh down a poem's meaning and even detract from a that meaning. Kowit seems to love balance and thorough understanding- but does not condemn a poem for imbalance. There is a proper way to leave a poem off-kilter and the reader a little 'off' as well...
For me, chapter 6 was more inspirational than anything. I felt that several of the revisions of the example poem were better than the version that Kowit eventually settled upon. Kowit does not really provide anything too concrete in terms of revision techniques, but it definitely got the wheels turning in my head. I think it may be one of those things that you glean from reading. I did enjoy the advice about removing unnecessary details. It gives the reader more authority in the final image created.
ReplyDeleteChapter 7 is...interesting. I was already well acquainted with most of the techniques discussed except for rich consonance. I think I may look to employ that one day. I already use alliteration when I feel it is appropriate or that it adds to a poem. I did not find much of the advice in that chapter to be very helpful. A lot of the discussion on assonance and consonance makes them seem to carry an undue significance in poetry, whereby I mean that they end up detracting from the poem. If memory serves, I believe Kowit actually discourages people from getting too caught up in technique later in chapter 8.
While trying not to sound like a know-it-all, I already knew many of the techniques discussed in chapter 8 as well, but I think Kowit does a nice job of elaborating on figurative language beyond surface level descriptions. He does a good job of demonstrating why the poets he references use metaphors in some situations and similes in others and does an especially good job of explaining why the poets used certain objects for comparison. I think my favorite example of this is in his discussion of Koertge's poem. I really enjoyed his critique on the phrase "high scorers" because it helped me better understand the concept of ambiguity and how a word having double meanings can actually be a great thing in a poem. His discussion of the "stone coat" in Milosz's poem also helped me see the power one word or one comparison can have. I was also a big fan of the American spins on haiku, and I was inspired by the ability of the Japanese poets mentioned to evoke such powerful concepts in so few words.
I found chapter 9 to be eye-opening. I am a big fan of the extended metaphor, but I had never heard it referred to as a controlling metaphor. I had also never seen some of the ways to use a controlling metaphor that Kowit presented. My favorite poem in the chapter was unquestionably Jack Gilbert's. He does such a poignant job of comparing his grief to a heavy package without ever actually stating it. I like controlling metaphors because they often make it easier to describe the emotions or details one associates about something than literally writing about said subject.
-Tyler Lyon-
Chapter six was a good chapter to read even though I disagree with some of what Kowit is saying. I agree completely with revising and editing all in the same day or time period with which the poem was originally written. The reason I say that is because I look at art as a way to reflect some of the emotions behind the ideas being displayed. Poetry is a form of art so I don't think it's always bad not to revise too much so that the emotions being felt at the beginning aren't lost by the final draft. On page 50, The revision of the poem is really well done. Looking at the page without even reading the words I can see that the first revision is only a couple of lines and the second revision makes the poem a lot larger because of the detail but the coolest thing is that the final draft still incorporates all of the previous detail just in a condensed and smooth fashion.
ReplyDeleteChapter seven was almost a review of what I have learned previously about poetry. I did though, like the exercise in describing scenes and brief encounters. I actually sat in one of my classes yesterday and decided to write down a description of the white board my professor was writing on. I could see how keeping a notebook around would be helpful because it takes away the pressure of trying to be really thoughtful all at once.
Chapter eight's discussion of ambiguity got me excited to try to write really clever poems. I also found the exercises fun, especially the one where you had to fill in the blanks for figurative language. The poems listed sound like good ideas for poems.
Carleigh Schumacher
Well starting with chapter six, i feel that revision is so important to writing poems, or anything in general. Nothing is ever perfect when you write it the first time. I have made major revisions to works that I have written over the last couple years, so revisions never stop. The chapter about music really interested me because I have always thought about music as a form of poetry. A lot of the time music has imagery or is narrative and you can picture what is going on in the song in your head. I liked the poem at the beginning of chapter 9 about the girl in the doorway. Its imagery was easy to understand and interpret. I also like the paragraph about internal rhyme, which is something that when I write, I either try to do with difficulty or just leave out all together. The poem at the beginning of chapter 9 was kinda distubing. I thought, "Who would write a poem like this?" But then I read the first few lines of the chapter and recognize the theme of sacrifice in the poem. Some of the things mentioned in the chapter about metaphors symbolizing different things about you or a character in your poem were intriguing, such as the mask constantly coming off of your face symbolizing your unsuccessful attempt to put up a false front or good face, this is on page 85.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Marr
I really liked Chapter 6 and agree with it. Usually when I am writing poems, a few of them are short and easy, needing a little word or two moved around, and then there are the usual ones where it feels like each time you write the poem you are stripping everything off of the page during each draft. And that's what I am finding with the poem that I am writing for the workshop. I like the advice Kowit had about leaving a poem alone for a day so that you become less attached to the words themselves, but I didn't understand in Chapter 7 when he said that it "A good rule of thumb is never to use a word that you're proud of" (61). Shouldn't you be proud of the words you choose for your poetry? Is that because if you're proud of the word you won't be willing to cut it if it doesn't help the poem?
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading about musical quality that poems exhibit. I was glad that they chose an Emily Dickinson poem, because she is one of the first poets that I think of for rhythm in words. I also enjoyed Raymond Carver's poem and liked how they broke it down further in the chapter to show how detail oriented poetry should be. And how if you leave too many words in a poem, it suffers. It was neat to read Raymond Carver's poem, because although I have read a short story of his, I haven't read any of his poetry. It's interesting how even though it's a different structure from prose to poetry, his voice as a writer still stays the same.
Chapter 8 and 9 felt like they were talking about the same things but in different ways. Although I enjoyed Ronald Koertge's poems, his first one made me wonder how figurative a writer should be before he fears losing the reader. I liked the Haikus, as they are always so simple. The only question I had with Chapter 9 was how to make a poem with a controlling metaphor without confusing the reader. I like metaphors, but sometimes when I write something as a metaphor people don't understand what I am getting at. When I read Untitled, I felt that confusion and had to reread it in order to better understand it.
Johanna Johnson
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ReplyDeleteAs mentioned in the Chapter 6, revision is important in writing a poem. However, I do not really agree in the fact that it is crucial. Some people like to write based off of what they are feeling at a certain moment at a certain time. I think that sometimes the more a person revises the more they get away from their intended purpose; I have been a victim of such a case before. However, just as many of my classmates who commented above me, I agree that the music chapter was interesting. Connecting poems and music together brings a well known harmony between the two. I think that the musical aspect of poetry is really true when poems are read out loud. I noticed I tend to fall into a certain rhythm or that the words could almost be sung like the a lyrics of songs for some poems. Many of the devices noted in chapter 8 and 9, I have to admit, I already knew so these two chapters were a bit dull for me. However, the extended metaphors did catch my eye. Extended metaphors, while fun, are also very easy to mess up. However, after the tips and example poems, I think I'll attempt to make one of my poems an extended metaphor. In all, Chapter 8 gave me a little hope and a bit more confidence that I might be able to make an extended metaphor in a poem, I will soon have to write, make actual sense. If not, then I will just have to turn back to chapter 8 and 9.
ReplyDelete-Jennie Hwangpo
I liked in chapter 6 about revision as discovering the language and meaning at the same time and how poetry is a balancing act with meaning and words but also a doorway at the same time to a whole new set of ways to balance things. The anaphoric list poem kn Ch. 7 didn't make sense to me in that why would you make a list of all these separate things if they were kind of meant to be on their own? In 8 I like how Kowit advises poets not to use figurative language just for the sake of itself. Like how it states in the poem "Very Like a Whale" tt should serve some purpose to the actual thing and have integrity. In 7 I've never heard of full consonance or end consonance rhymes before. It's interesting to think that consonant can be like assonance in rhyme and give a musical internal rhyme. I liked the haiku and American sentences in ch.7. I like their simplicity it made me try to imagine the emotion based on the sentences.
ReplyDeleteI think a benefit of using controlled metaphor either in a real story or a dream is the amount of work it calls on the writer and the reader to come to this mutual place and have and gain the tools to interpret a story through another story. It's challenging to imagine and to concieve of any meaning but it gives you every last earnest detail about how exaggerated the feelings are or where these feelings understandings are to be found for the poet and to relate for the reader to enjoy and imagine as well.